| 00:00 | Larry , in this conversation with Skip Level Talks , what I wanted to kinda share with the audience is , what is a skip level talk ? Because not everybody knows what that is.
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| 00:10 | Okay. That's easy.
If you're the leader , the VP of sales , the global sales leader , whatever you're called , the CRO , when you take the time to go a couple levels below where you are to get information. So if I'm a CRO , that might mean going to a sales manager.
You know , if I'm a VP of sales , that might mean going to a sales rep. But , you're just you're you're going a couple of levels below where you are to try to get some information that you think it can , you know , help the business.
And , I think I just think they're really important to do so that you stay attached to what's actually going on during the sales process of your organization. So , you know , it's a skip.
That's why I called a skip level. You're you're not going to the level that directly reports to you.
You're going somewhere below that level , and you're getting information. |
| 01:05 | Why are skip levels important for leaders ?
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| 01:09 | Well , they're important because if if something is happening that's really good in your organization , but you're only seeing it in pockets and rather than across the board , it's good to find to sit down with the people that are executing at a real high level , especially when it comes to individual contributors or sellers. It's really nice to be able to go call in , talk to those folks , and get a firsthand , feedback as to , you know , how they're able to be successful.
Why are they so successful executing where others are not ? And , you know , it's hard to get that. Even if you're you're very close to your team , you can get a feel for what it is , but to actually talk to the individuals that are that are executing out there in the field , it gives you the raw data , and and it's very useful to you when you start messaging to other people in the organization as to what's happening and why you're being successful.
But But it also can be helpful if if things aren't going so well and if you're losing opportunities or losing deals to go below the sales management level and talk directly to the sellers and get a get some feedback and what the challenges are at and get some feedback as to why they haven't met those challenges.
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| 02:28 | When do you utilize those skip levels ? |
| 02:32 | I can remember , when I was at the Tandberg organization , and we were working on you know , we sold , you know , infrastructure solutions , video infrastructure solutions. And we had you know , this one really hit me hard because we had we had some rich technology that we thought was pretty good.
And , we started to hear rumblings in the Salesforce that there was a newcomer in the business. And at that time , that newcomer was Codian.
And and they were being very successful at beating us when it came to video in infrastructure. And we were a bigger company , much stronger at the time.
We had a full suite of products. And so , typically , we would have an advantage in that area because we had a full suite of product.
But but this this company , this small company was doing extremely well. And I remember reaching out to one of my sellers at the time and asking them , you know , what what is it about this product ? And , the seller admitted to me that they had gone to get a demo of the product and , and that , you know , they went to see it.
Now this was one of my top guys , so I was a little nervous that they had actually gotten a demo of the product because that means they're talking to that company. So I'm a little nervous and , and he crystallized for me , and the problem in a way that made it easy for me to talk about the product to some of the leaders of the company.
And it it was that he told me it felt like he was cheating on his wife when he went to see the product and that the product really worked really well , and he felt really , you know , odd. He he had a odd feeling about it.
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| 04:22 | How did that hit you when he said that ?
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| 04:24 | Well , that means that , you know , maybe they got a product that's better than what we have. Maybe that's a real thing , you know , for someone to characterize it that way.
And that's just one of the many stories that I have about skip level engagements. In that case , ultimately , Tamburg bought Cody in.
Okay ?
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| 04:44 | Oh , wow. |
| 04:45 | Yeah. Tandberg bought Cody , and I think it was probably instrumental in in the acquisition of , Tandberg by Cisco.
I'm not saying that that skip level was the reason , but I think that he him being able to raise the issue in a way that was made it easy for me to talk about it. So when the discussion came up with the with my leadership team , I could say , honestly , we got a problem.
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| 05:13 | What's the strategy ? Like , are you just like , hey. Let me get 15 minutes with you.
Are you setting up a calendar , or is this just like you walk in or you just pick up the phone call ? Like , how are you deploying the skip level ?
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| 05:27 | Well , there there are cup a couple of different ways. When you ride with a seller , you go out to visit customers with the seller.
When you're going to the meeting and when you're coming from the meeting or before and after the meeting , you have a chance to talk to the seller that you have you're talking to him in preparation for the meeting. That's those are natural ways of getting information.
You don't you have to formalize it as a skip level session , but that's exactly what it is. You're talking to them about the business or , you know , back before , you know , you had the remote offices , the skip level sessions could take place just walking around the the the office.
You you sit down and and talk to a person , you know , without scheduling. I would say 80% of my skip level sessions were were not scheduled.
Now there is a time to have a formalized skip level , and typically , that's when things have really I would say that's more when things are not going well. You're not having a meeting just to find out how this person is executing so well.
I like to do those for when they're not executing so well. But when you formalize it sometimes when there's just a big problem going on.
Maybe they're cut maybe your customer's problem going on. Maybe their cut maybe your customer satisfaction is way down.
You need to get , you know , 10 or 15 sellers in a room and just let them brainstorm and and vent as to what's going on. That's a nice formalized skip level where you you bring in the people.
But that's when you the problem has gotten a little bit out of hand , and you need to rapidly get a whole bunch of opinions at one time.
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| 07:14 | Are you going after your top performers , low performers ?
You're coming to the organization new. You're picking the phone up.
You're flying out to see those sellers, or you're picking the phone up, you're jumping on the video call with those sellers, and you're finding out why they're late. And, you know, you may find out that it's too late, and you may find out that, you know, it's a quick fix and you can fix it.
But what the organization now knows is that you value top performers. Right?
And that you're gonna fight to keep them in the organization, which means you're gonna listen to what the Salesforce has to say. So those are the things that you do, but you make sure everybody knows you're gonna do it.
Yeah. Wow.
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| 07:20 | I'm 90% time. I'm going after my top performers.
They're executing despite any challenges we might have , and they're executing because there's some things that we do really well. And so I can get a full , menu of things from them.
Low performers who aren't doing that well , I hit those as well , but I'd say that's probably 20% of the time.
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| 07:44 | To kinda , like , wrap this up with really the last question for those who aren't doing skip levels and are in leadership , whether it's , you know , director level , VP level.
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| 07:53 | If you're not doing them , then your sense of urgency about your business is probably not where it needs to be. You can always learn from the people that are out there executing against the message that you want them.
The people for instance , skip levels just don't apply to messages to customers and so it it applied sales comp plan. You can do a skip level and find out you got a problem with your sales comp plan.
If you do a skip level and find out , woah. We got if we tweak this just this little bit , it didn't make a major difference.
That's huge for your business. The the if you're not doing them , it just means it I'm not saying you're not gonna figure it out , but you're gonna figure it out slower than you've.
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| 08:39 | figured out. Too late.
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| 08:42 | too. You hope not too late , but absolutely. |
| 08:46 | It Yeah. |
| 08:47 | Can be too late. |
| 08:48 | Okay. Awesome.
Well , Larry , I appreciate you taking time to speak about this one very much.
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| 08:53 | Alright. |
| 08:54 | And , to the next episode. |
| 08:56 | Okay. Thanks , man. |
