| 00:00 | The question that I really wanna ask you is because you've led a lot of different teams in different environments and have had a lot of successful teams that you built out , I have no doubt that you've had your fair share of underperformers. How do you deal with underperformers ?
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| 00:16 | The biggest challenge you have as a leader is to figure out why they're underperforming , what the problem is. And , the best way to do that is through coaching.
So the first place you look when you have people who are performing , it's are they hitting those KPIs or tables or whatever a business wants to call them , but the 3 , they're the 3 or 4 things that a seller has to do to be successful. And so if you find out they're doing those things and yet they're still not being successful , then it's incumbent upon you as the sales leader.
And usually this is the first line sales leader. If you find it , this , this person , this individual is hitting all of their metrics that you felt were important to do it.
Then a lot of what you have to do is going to involve direct contact with that seller , going out and visiting customers with that seller and having discussions about those visits at the each visit. If you develop a culture of coaching , you can give constructive coaching to the individual.
When you look at all those metrics , if you can look at them and be really thinking constructively about how they can improve those tangibles , then you wanna talk to the individual about what they're doing long. What many sales leaders don't do is get involved to the detailed level , why they're not making those metrics.
And then when they do get involved , they don't provide proactive coaching because what's important is that that individual has to face up to what they're doing wrong , typically to to try to progress them to become a performer.
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| 01:54 | Anecdotally , just in conversations with leaders , I could say they're probably not doing this because the feedback I get from candidates is they've been told , you know , or coached out. But the words you use or the tones you use , like how important is that ? |
| 02:10 | You know , words are important , but the frequency of coaching is I think the critical factor. I wasn't the kind of sales leader that looked to try to demean you.
What I would like to do is just to talk about where you're doing well , where you're not doing well. And if you're not making your number , it's a problem.
And you need to know that it's a problem. Sales leaders are funny.
You know , one of the things they don't , most people don't make their quota. Like if I'm a sales manager , it's gonna be hard to make my quota if I don't keep a full staff.
So I can't have a lot of attrition and I can't be fired a whole lot of people. A lot of sales leaders will , permit underperformance to relax and just continue along their way because maybe they believe they've got some over performers that are going to cover up for them.
I never thought that was a good idea. I always thought that what you needed to do is to build up a funnel of potential candidates that you could always go to.
And so you're not , reluctant to have that tough conversation with your underperforming salesperson. So the idea that you go out with a salesperson and they do a whole lot of things wrong , and you say , oh , it was a pretty good call.
Yeah. You , you may wanna be able to think about doing this and doing that the next time.
No , you can't do that. You have to say , you know , the call was really bad.
Okay. That was not a pretty good call.
Call was really bad. You got to set the tone really upfront.
The call was really bad. I was disappointed that you let these things take place during the call.
It doesn't appear to me that you were listening properly , but I set the tone while I lead the meeting with that was not a good call. I'm doing the person a favor , but staying in it extra nights when you're not , because when you , when you don't say it very directly , they may not hear it.
And so you're not giving them a chance to fix it because if they don't think it , if they think something was pretty good , but you really thought it was pretty bad , then they're gonna go away with not thinking that they need to fix something. You need them to go away thinking that they need to get something fixed.
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| 04:29 | I've heard of leaders through the voice of the sellers , like the aggressive nature of just rating. Is there a time and a place for that ? Yeah.
Or not as even doesn't even exist. |
| 04:42 | If , if you're being described as somebody just be rating somebody that's usually means that you're not just offering them constructive advice. But I will tell you that it is important as a sales leader , people see you treat everyone fairly.
Some people say , well , I would never have a , have any constructive conversation in public , in a public forum , in , in like in a sales manager meeting. Well , I don't think this , I don't agree with that.
I think that if your seller is , hasn't been performing and hasn't been doing what they're supposed , it's okay to talk about that in sales meeting. It's okay for me to say Chris , and we've got the other sellers around Chris , you're not hitting any of your metrics.
Your funnel is weak and you're not making your number. We're gonna have to talk about that.
And the reason I think it's important that other sellers hear the op in the sales meeting environment is because now you're setting , you're setting the tone for the business , you know , and they're hearing it. Now I didn't demean you in any way.
I just talked about the 3 things that you're not doing. We can have that dialogue.
I doubt we want to have it back and forth , but you did hear me Yeah. In the middle of the meeting.
And all the other reps heard too. So if they're in that state , it becomes a culture that can handle that.
What I'm. |
| 06:04 | what I'm curious is because you've worked in the bigger companies and you've worked in start ups. What are the differences , if there's any , when coaching people underperformers or dealing with underperformers ?
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| 06:16 | Technically , there shouldn't be any difference. Okay.
But in the bigger companies , the formal personal improvement plan is critical in a startup. You should do a formal one , but many times you're every year , every year running so fast.
You just gotta go. Hey man , the informal is , hey , look , man.
We talked about this last week. We talked about it a month ago.
You're still not doing any of these things. We gotta move on.
In a bigger company kit , you gotta do the personal improvement plan , even though you talked about it , you talked about it. And the reason I say that there shouldn't be any difference.
The key is that the salesperson know that they're not meeting their number. Does the salesperson know that you believe that theirs , they're not meeting their number because they're not hitting the metrics that they should be ? Have you told them that ? Have you coached them on how to do it ? All of that can take place in 3 days.
Okay. Yeah.
All the things I just thought can take place in 3 days , but it's important that it takes place and that should take place in a bigger company or the smaller company. If you're a frontline sales , normal , Jerry , you have to be touching your sellers all the time , especially the ones that are underperforming.
The ones that are hitting their number is fine , but 30% are not. You should be focused on that 30% because you can potentially help them improve to so that you will have an 80% number or 90% number , but you also , but the way to do that is to also be strategic about building your funnel of candidates.
Because I think that most sales managers , if they knew they had somebody in their funnel that could come in and do the job , they'd be more likely to coach on a more regular basis.
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| 08:07 | How do you deal with underperformers that are giving you these sob stories that are very compelling ?
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| 08:13 | Yeah. I'm gonna be very direct with with them.
I hear you. And , you know , and I'm I'm I'm quite confident you're gonna be able to work through that.
Let's get back to focusing on what you're not being with. Okay.
So I'm not , I , I , I'm not getting involved in what they got going on. I hear you too , and I'm confident you're going to take care of it.
And as a sales leader , like I said , move me. I can't count a one horn.
People who have come up to me with that as it is coming up to bring their personal problems is that we're shooting. That just doesn't happen.
And I think it's because I've shut a business tone in my discussions. We coach each other , we talk to each other daily , but it's all business.
But I said , I , you know , very , I didn't face that a lot because I did stay in the business lane so much with the one that you should work with. And ultimately by doing that , they found me to be frail.
They found me to be , focused on their well-being from a job standpoint. I mean , the job is an important piece of your life.
And I'm I am being when they do the job well , I am enthusiastic on giving credit and try to make sure they get as much money as they can get. And when they do the job poorly , I want them to know what they're doing poorly so that they can potentially fix it.
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| 09:41 | I guess summarize the 3 like , a couple points ending this discussion that you would wanna remind people or sales leaders that are dealing with underperformers just to kinda highlight what we just talked about.
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| 09:52 | The first one is build a culture of coaching in your organization , because that's going to help you over perform exactly that performance , but it's really going to help you with underperformance. If you're given them direct and structured coaching.
Number 2 , if you're a sales lead , always interview other people. Yeah.
One of the biggest things that keeps you from really , focusing on your underperformer is you don't have a back. And so always be looking to have a funnel of people that can come in and do potentially do the job , better than the underperformers are doing it.
And the third , you know , stay true and be fair , stay true in your approach. You know , it's in business and you , you want them to see everything that you do is for the good of the business and for their good in terms of I'm trying to help you make more money.
I'm trying to help you keep this job.
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